Carol and Carl, I think your activity in the 505 class is outstanding and really good for the fleet. You are showing that a boat that is not a Waterat or Hamlin can compete very effectively on the West Coast and in the North Americans. You are also showing how a talented husband and wife team can compete at the top level.
Q: When did you first start sailing 505s? How long of a respite from 505 racing did you take before rejoining the fleet recently?
A: (Carol) We started sailing the 505 in 1976. We sailed our first North Americans in 1977 in Port Townsend and the Worlds in Denmark in 1978. The last regatta we sailed during that time was in 1990, the NA's in San Francisco and then sold the boat the following year to Robin Brown.
Q: What interested you in coming back? Why the 505? Do you actively sail other boats besides the 505?
A: (Carol) Last fall Morgan Larson offered to let us sail his boat while he was in New Zealand, and that got the wheels turning in our heads. Shortly afterwards, Carl was staying at Howard Hamlin's house with our daughter while she was sailing a college regatta. The photos on the wall and the boat in the garage got him thinking even more. Paul Von Grey got us out sailing during the winter and a planing spinnaker reach did the final convincing. We still race the Tasar and Carl sails the Laser over the winter.
Q: Everyone was really impressed by the results the two of you achieved at both the PCCs in the Gorge and the North Americans in LA. How were you able to get up to top speed so quickly after being away from the boat for so long? Have things changed much since you last sailed the 505?
A: (Carl) It really helps that there is so much info available about setting up and tuning the 505 on the internet and from the sailors directly. Also we went with pretty proven stuff in terms of sails, spars and hull. There are some different things that would be fun to try but we felt like we didn't want to be out in left field to start with. The biggest changes since we were in the class before are the smaller, higher aspect blades (although we experimented with a rudder in the late 70's that we called the "popsicle stick", the foil was too thin and you couldn't even steer the boat if the jib wasn't pulled in) and the bigger kite, along with the way it changes the tactics off the wind. I think the tactics with the bigger kite was the hardest thing for us, especially since you need to sail a bit in big fleets to get used to it. The other thing that was difficult was getting my body used to sailing the 505 and trapezing again.
Q: Are you calibrated to Howard's tuning matrix or do you use a different set of numbers?
A: (Carl) We use Howard's rake numbers as a guide. I also think our ram, outhaul, and CB pin are pretty similar. We seem to carry our shrouds a little tighter than he is currently, this may be partly due to the fact that our jib leads are further inboard due to the width of the Rondar side tanks, also because we are a little lighter. As a result of the tighter shrouds, we carry our spreaders a little further forward. You change one thing and everything goes to pieces. From that point we experiment with the vang and cunningham to see what works for the conditions.
Q: Carl, I'm very impressed you made your own set of foils for the boat. Bruce Edwards told me he asked you how much you charge if you made a set for him and you replied, "You couldn't afford it." Just how long did it take you to build them? Are you happy with the results? Have you built a lot of foils in the past?
A: (Carl) I think I worked pretty hard for a weekend plus the next evening getting the blades shaped and glassed (we used a vacuum bag for the first time and that was cool), then 4 or 5 evenings on fairing and making the gudgeons/ tillerhead. They still are not painted except for a light coat on the rudder for weed control. I also had some help from Carol and from Jaime Mack, a Europe sailor who is a composites engineer. I have built my own 505 blades in the past except one time we borrowed a set of Lindsay's for a regatta.
I am happy with the current blades from a speed standpoint. The most important thing however, is that they not break and that the rudder steers the boat. On those scores, I am watching them since I used cedar for the cores. Cedar has given me some trouble in past rudders (I am hoping that the greater use of carbon will help here). It is hard for me to get great spruce in sufficient quantities to select the pieces I want now without going to a lot of trouble and cost. Another issue is that the rudder did stall once, hopefully just from a weed or the fact that the aft bailer was open. We have pushed it harder in more wind at other times, and it has been ok. The profiles are based on patterns provided by Peter Alarie at Guck that are based on Mike Martin shapes modified to fit the Rondar. I made the rudder a little deeper for the big kite, and I made the board a little smaller (I tried for 505 square inches). For the sections I use the eyeball method. I tried making templates and using a router once but I couldn't hack it and I threw the board in the garbage before I even glassed it. I guess I am used to doing it this way.
Q: A lot of people are planning on buying a Van Munster. Will you stick with your Rondar?
A: (Carl) There are a lot of good looking 505's being built now, both in this country and abroad. We are happy with the Rondar. I like the way it feels, although it could be that after being away for a while any 505 would feel good. I do have some CB cap/thwart modifications in mind for this winter; hopefully I won't screw the boat up. There is a Van Munster coming to Seattle, and I hope to get a chance to compare.
Q: Both of you have a tremendous number of sailing accomplishments. Can you provide a summary of some of the awards you have won?
A: (Carol) Together we won the 505 NA's in 1985. We won the Tasar Worlds in England last summer. Carl has won the Youth Worlds '75, FD Worlds '83, Olympic Gold '84, Star Worlds '92. He also has won a Laser Nationals in three different decades, '78,'80,'00. I've won Adams Cup
in '87 and '88. The Women's Doublehanded Nationals in '89 and the Canadian Women's Match Race Champs
in '94.
Q: How often are you out on the water sailing each year?
A: (Carol) We sail about every other weekend from April through October and a couple nights during the week. It is sporadic during the winter. We pick two or three big regattas a year.
Q: What do you do when you aren't sailing?
A: (Carol) Carl works for his dad developing property and building houses. I am a freelance graphic designer. Most of our free time is spent with our children Lindsay, 20 and Jamie, 18. Our family summer cruise is a priority as well as spending time together in the San Juan Islands.
Q: Do you get along well when the two of you are racing together? Does racing cause arguments or frustrations?
A: (Carol) We have been working it out for 25 years now. The secret of success seems to be mutual respect and keeping criticism to a minimum. Last year we put a lot of pressure on ourselves training for the Tasar Worlds and at times things got a little testy. We try to keep it fun and put things in perspective.
Q: I'm guessing that the two of you are very light compared to most of the top teams. Was that a problem in the big breeze of the Gorge?
A: (Carol) We have never felt that our combined weight by itself was a disadvantage. The reality is that the 505 is a lot of boat for someone weighing 120 pounds. No matter how great a shape I am in, there is a limit to my strength due to my size. On the other hand, Carl has the height advantage on the wire. In the past when we sailed, Carl could wear weight.
Q: You seem to bring a lot of independent thinking to the 505. Do you think the almost pure one design nature of the 505 West Coast fleet has led to any oversights in the boat setup, boat handling, or racing style?
A: (Carl) One of the things that I like about the 505 is the chance to be creative which is not possible in some other classes. I think the similar set-ups of the boats on the West Coast is good because it gives a benchmark to help get up to a competitive speed. Then you need to keep experimenting from there. I know from talking to Howard/Mike that even though they have great speed and sail the boat very well they are always thinking about better ways to do things. I can remember sailing the Star in 1990: we were very fast all year, knew the settings that worked, and used them all the time. When we (I didn't sail with Carol at this one) got to the Worlds we encountered some conditions that we were not used to. Not only did we not know the settings to use, we didn't know enough about the way things worked together to be able to start making the changes we needed. Sailing in 100 boat fleets also requires some changes in the way you sail the boat. Now we will make a conscious effort to try different stuff if the right situations. Even if it doesn't work sometimes you learn as much from your failures as your successes. Another example is in the Tasar, we point high and have a good VMG, so to develop another gear, we have gone sailing a few times with the goal of being the fastest through the water, lowest pointing boat on the course even though it may not be the best for the short term. The time will come when we may get a condition or tactical situation where it will be nice to have that gear. This type of testing builds small refinements. On a larger scale, development seems to go in leaps. In 12 meters, spade rudders or winged keels would be an example, in 505's the high aspect blades or the use of large amounts of rake come to mind.
Q: I know it is a long drive for many events, but hope you will be racing in the full West Coast series next year. What are your plans? Are you going to the Worlds this year or next?
A: (Carol) We are looking for some opportunities to sail in warmer climates in the winter and are hoping to get to the North Americans next summer.
TANK TALK - FALL 2002