I've been reading with a great deal of interest all the comments recently posted since Eric started the discussion.
I was very interested to see that Eric attended his first World Cup in 1967 as a spectator and as a young lad. (Eric, if you mean the 1967 Worlds at La Baule, I was there sailing for the "good ol' USA" with Dennis Surtees) And the fascination for the boat has remained. ME TOO!!! I'm sure that fascination would not have endured had the boat been a "simpler", "less challenging" boat to be dealing with. There have been many, apparantly, quite logical comments made about what the class, "could have done", "should have done" to increase it's popularity. But would any of those suggestions have been successful? Who knows? It is purely conjecture. Maybe constant changes along the way and continuing restrictions over the years to simplify the boat and keep the costs down would only have been successful in driving the class into extinction like so many other classes have done. (I can remember when automobiles were much much simpler and cheaper in 1967. Why are they getting more complicated and more expensive?)

The greatest asset of a 505 is it's characteristic of quick response. This makes it a very easy boat to sail. But try to sail it fast, in a compettitve environment and try to be the fastest. There's the challenge! Just when you think you have the answers, somebody passes you and you realise there is still something else to know about this sensitive machine. I'm sure the continuing success of the class is the boat the way it is. Not what it might have been had we changed it.

On Eric's comment:- "there is a big difference between the experienced crews and the beginners" Surely this is not an issue! In what field of human endeavour can it be shown that an experienced person is not more successful than a beginner? Baseball? Tennis? Soccer? Motor Car Racing? Rocket Science? Brain Surgery? This aspect also offers the greatest ability for the experienced to help the in-experienced. If this wasn't the case the overall standard would ultimately be lowered. And never has there been a more congenial class where the flow of information is so freely given from the experienced to the
in-experienced in order to be of help.

In closing, I was just about to repond to this last weeks comments, when Ali posted his response (we were both obviously waiting in the background for the right time). Ali has stated in more detail many of my feelings so there's no point in me repeating. But as a final comment, I'll repat what I've been saying around the boat park for the last few years.

The 505 class doesn't have a "boat problem" we only have a "marketing problem". And I don't believe this marketing problem can be overcome simply by spending "marketing bucks" in yachting media. The real challenge is to find the time to give every young promising sailor a ride and a steer in a 505. Once they have had the thrill, you've got 'em!
If they are the sort of person who responds to a challenge and seeks high level competition, they'll find a way. This is the difficult part. We all lead such busy lives these days. We squeeze in the time to compete in as many events as we are able, but don't provide enough time out to take other people out for a ride. (well, that's the way I see it.)

Good sailing!!
Pip Pearson
International President

From: Steve Lieberman
Sent: June 7, 2000
To: 505world-list
Subject: Re: The Marketing Department !!

As a newcomer (1.5 years) to the 505 class, I'd like to second Pip and Ali's comments. I wouldn't change a thing in the boat or the class! While I'll never be all that good, I'm having a fabulous time learning and sailing.

In the 1960's, I would have given my "eye-teeth" to sail a 505. Unfortunately, they weren't sailed in the area where I grew up. By the time I was in 505 country in the 1970's (and had finished graduate school), I raced 470's with my wife. When the kids came, I switched mainly to windsurfing.

When my (then) 14 year old son said he wanted to race -- and with ME! -- I looked at I-14s and 505's. One weekend sailing with Fleet 19 convinced me that to buy a boat. In large measure, the boat "sold" itself -- the performance, the sheer beauty of its balance and responsiveness. But, the people in the class were an equally important attraction. In 43 years of sailing, I've never met a nicer, more willing to help and more willing to share group. Rather than making someone learning the boat feel inadequate, I've gotten an extraordinary amount of support and assistance.

If you'd told me two years ago I'd buy a (used) Waterat (at a far higher initial cost than I'd expected, since I thought I'd start with a "classic"), spend a fair amount of money having Peter Alarie (Guck) bring the boat back (virtually) to "new" condition (and converted to a launcher), crew in the Mid-Winters, and be shipping the boat cross-country to the PCCs and NAs, I'd have bet dollars to donuts against it. On the other hand, if you'd told me that I'd have the chance to spend hundreds of hours with my (now 16 year old) son, doing something we both love, I'd have done almost anything.

Because of the demanding nature of the boat -- both physically and intellectually (a problem with too many variables) -- Josh knows that we depend on each other as teammates when racing. He knows that his job, as crew, is as important -- and probably more demanding -- than mine. In what other venue do a father and son get to do something together as equals that's exhilarating,
challenging, safe and affordable, where the relationship transcends our biological roles?

505's provide the thrills a teen-ager (like Josh or Ali Meller) crave. Because it is endlessly challenging, with always something to learn, it keeps our interest. While there's an incredible amount to learn, it's not frustrating for two reasons. First, people are always willing to help, to teach, to demonstrate. Second, the feedback is immediate when you do something right (or
wrong!).

Until he trades me in for a better driver, we both look forward to this shared experience and passion. I'm hard-pressed to think of another boat which would offer what the 505 offers us. If it were simpler -- less adjustable -- fathers' with growing kids would find it harder to adjust to differing crew weights (Josh is now 6'2" and 200 lbs). And, the boat would be less challenging and performance would suffer.

People can buy classics, decent used racing boats, used Superboats, a new KISS Rondar or Witchcraft, or a new Waterat, at prices ranging from $1,000 (or less) to $26,000. Like almost everything else I can think of, people can choose to spend a lot or a little to maintain or upgrade their boats, trading-off skill, time, money, and commitment. If 30 years ago a "classic" 505 had been available, I'd have bought it (and worked on it) just as I did with an old Jet 14. (In fact, I could buy a classic in 2000 dollars for about what I spent in 1969 dollars to buy my Jet.) While not cheap, racing 505's is less expensive than many other activities: skiing, golf, or sailing many other boats.

505's aren't for everyone: we shouldn't try to be all things to all people. First, high performance dinghy sailing isn't for everyone. Second, people who want to race and/or daysail with families may want a different boat (Thistle, Lightning, J-24). Third, the level of teamwork may drive some to single-handers or boats where there is less reliance on the crew. But, when a kid would rather
sail 505's than ski expert terrain, do high-wind windsurfing or race Lasers, I submit that the class really does have things in balance.

Steve Lieberman US 7876