From: Holger Jess [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: den 30 oktober 2000 10:31
To: 5o5 mailing list
Subject: 505world World List
Dear 505 friends,
I have added myself again to int. mailing list after several month absence.
But before I might leave it again I want to point out a few things to you (and obviously
my first mail which was bounced back has been already read by some people as Ali has
already reacted this weekend) Please urgently split the Us from the int. mailing list as
nearly only Us problems get discussed.
I know about various sailors here in german fleet which left the mailing list again as
there were so many absolutely unimportant issues send out worldwide that sailors got fed
up checking through everything to find out what might contain something important or not.
This results in something which cannot be good for the class: that f.x. germany has got by
far now the largest fleet in the World but very little int. influence due to the mentioned
problems and also everything happens in the US and UK fleets home language (which also is
an advantage for those countries at AGM�s) I believe we have managed our fleet extremly
succesfull to come to the size we have now and especially in 2000 we archived time ever a
100+ result in our ranking list which is the largest overall activity we ever had- and the
average age is going lower also.
Can the super-active virtual internet sailors please set up own mailing lists to
discuss items like how to repair a 4000 sail numbertimber boat or who has ever
sailed in his life on Lake somewhere and so on in an extra US forum please !
I�m sure loads of people will support me to our all and the class benefit.
We also had a short time this year when unimportant items like who is taking how many
kids to the regatta next weekend etc. nearly took over the german mailing list, but
after a warning this was stopped to avoid several active people leaving the list. Happy we
managed that proplem here in our fleet.
Other important point:
We need to get rid of the useless postal ballot system as this f.x. is the reason why
things go wrong like it has just happend lately inTornado class that through a ballot the
new class rules were stopped and now the Tornado might loose olympic status.
We just just vote for items at the
Worlds and thats it, as then just the active people vote.
We cannot ask everybody who is a class member but maybe is never racing but can block
developments by voting.This needs to be discussed and nailed down in Durban as the class
very quickly now needs to progress to avoid it dying in some countries as we can expect
large changes in international sailing anyway after 470 man going out of olympics at ISAF
meeting as that means the traditional (but completly outdated) 2 man dinghy goes out and
the mainstream will be 49er and 29er instead of 420 and 470 which we had for about 30
years but being finally replaced now.
Holger Jess
unfortunately I can�t make it Durban as I got no available skipper
From: [email protected]
Sent: den 30 oktober 2000 16:45
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: AW: 505world World List
Well done Holger,
I think we have to generate national Maillists also in USA. If we have problems in Germany
we discuss it on our German Maillist.
For all You 505 sailers in the world:
In Germany You are in the Ranking (100 boats) if You sailed 9 or more races.
In Germany we have nearly 200 boats wich sailed one or more races and we have nearly 350
people in the national 505 association.
So all this people want to sail on the water and not in the Internet. All this sailors in
Germany are very satisfied about the 505 as one design class.
The sailors, who want to go up and down racing, buy 49er, but we love it to sail heavy
triangles. So let's make the boats over the years a little bit lighter and faster with our
good rigging.
One point to our friends in USA: If the international sailers of You sail with 20-30 years
old boats, there are no used boats in USA and the class will never crow up.
In Germany, we made in the last years the 505 class so big, because the good international
sailors sell their boats after three or four years to young guys. The 505 class can only
stay as a worldwide class, if we have a big market with new and used boats and if we don't
try to make the 505 like a 49er, if we try this the 49er is the better boat.
So sorry about my bad english and good skiing in the winter
Wolfgang
GER 8633
From: Tony Devita [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: den 30 oktober 2000 17:15
To: 505 world
Subject: 505world Invite to Mr. Jess and Deutche 505
I will try to be civil here. I think Mr. Jess' comments are rude and take a lot for
granted. (My e-mail is right at the bottom Mr Jess, so I'm not shooting from the dark)
Instead of splitting off to glorify yourself over your fleet success. Why not come out of
hiding so the rest of the world fleet (who sail quite actively thank you) can gain from
the insight to be offered from the fleet who apparently can do it right. I would hope the
rest of the German 505 fleet, who are wonderful sailors and people, do not share your
cynicism.
Tony DeVita [email protected]
From: Peter Epstein mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: den 30 oktober 2000 16:35
To: 5o5 mailing list
Subject: 505world Democracy for the class
Holger Jess Wrote:
>Other important point:
>we need to get rid of the useless postal ballot system as this f.x. is
>the reason why things go wrong like it has just happend lately in
>Tornado class that through a ballot the new class ruiles there were
>stopped and now the Tornado might loose olympic status.
>We just just vote for items at the Worlds and that�s it as then just the
>active people vote.
Hold on a minute! Only allowing those who show up at the worlds to vote on class rule
changes is WRONG! There are a number of ACTIVE 5o5 sailors throughout the world who may
not be able to participate in the world championships because of funding, home
responsibilities, work responsibilities, etc. If the postal ballot is eliminated then the
ballots presented at the World Championships and their results will NOT truly reflect the
ACTIVE sailors or class MEMBERS that could not attend.
My personal goal is to attend a World Championship series. However, My present financial
situation let alone work requirements are preventing me from attending. As a paid class
member, 5o5 enthusiast, and promoter of the class in our local area, I am STRONGLY opposed
to such a measure of eliminating the postal ballot.
>We cannot ask everybody who
is a class member but maybe is never racing
>but can block developments by voting.
As a PAID member in the class it is my RIGHT to be able to participate in a vote.
Circumstances of other class members may or may not be similar to mine but I'll be damned
if someone wants to take away my vote just because I don't attend every regatta, or my
boat isn't ready, or I cannot afford to pay the airfare, accomodation, entry fees, and
ship my boat on a container to attend the World Championships.
EVERY class member has the right to express THEIR vote; PERIOD!
Additionally, I highly doubt that there is an organized group of non-active 5o5 sailors
who want to sabotage the class. Holding a VOTE on changes to the class rules is the
DEMOCRATIC and ONLY way to insure the future of the class.
>This needs please to be
discussed and nailed down in Durban as the
>class very quickly now needs to progress to avoid it dying in some
>countries as we can expect large changes in international sailing anyway
>after 470 man going out of olympics at ISAF meeting as that means the
>traditional (but completly outdated) 2 man dinghy goes out and the
>mainstream will be 49er and 29er instead of 420 and 470 which we had for
>about 30 years but being finally replaced now.
The 5o5 class has been around for about 50 years. We have never been an Olympic Class.
And, if I understand it correctly, most of the MEMBERS did not want it to become one! We
have survived this long without the political BS that surrounds the Olympics and we are
not the only class to do so. I don't care about the 470, 420, Tornado, Finn, Star, Soling,
etc. I care about sailing my 5o5 and I will VOTE my RIGHT as a paid member of the class!
>Holger Jess
>unfortunately I can�t make it Durban as I got no available skipper
So, Holger, I guess that if a vote or discussion were held at the World's you would not be
able to express YOUR opinion. How does that make you feel?
However IF Important issues were raised and a Postal Ballot were held YOU would be able to
express YOUR opinion by casting YOUR Ballot.
Regards,
Peter Epstein
CAN 7570
From: [email protected]
Sent: den 31 oktober 2000 14:24
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 505world Democracy for the class
Dear Mark and all,
We already allow e-mail responses for
our "postal" ballots. We also hope that the soon-to-be-available "505 world
announce" listserver will encourage those 505 sailors who do not wish to be part of
ongoing "505 world discussion" to remain subscribed to the "505 world
announce" listserver, so information from the International 505 Class Yacht Racing
Association can be e-mailed directly to all or at least most members of the class.
This could be used to distribute a "postal" ballot to all or most members.
However, until such time as everyone is on e-mail, we will continue to distribute paper
ballots, so that everyone has the opportunity to vote on class issues.
Alexander "Ali" Meller
VP International 505 Class Yacht Racing Association
In a message dated 10/30/2000 9:18:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> I suggest E-mail as an alternative ballot for those that would
"register" rather than snail-mail. Furthermore, we may gain the ability to build
an e-mail list that could better communicate with the "lurkers" among us so they
can make informed vote decisions by E-mailings that provide pro-con opinion.
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